Posted by: tonyforest | June 27, 2009

Some people never give up

Daily Kos up in Flames?

Daily Kos up in Flames?

Kos – it’s time to re-evaluate that “no 9/11 conspiracy theories” policy.

by TylerFromNE

Fri Jun 26, 2009 at 01:14:40 AM PDT

I’ll be blunt – the no so-called “conspiracy theories” policy on this site has always made me cringe. The very purpose of the pejorative term “conspiracy theory” is to discourage any sort of critical thinking, and it’s highly unbecoming of a self-styled “reality-based community” to discourage individuals from offering various interpretations of the meaning and/or origins of inarguably real events. The very notion that the only acceptable discussion of reality must be centered around the accounts which we’re spoon-fed by the corporate media and/or corporate puppet government, fully discredits any claim of being “reality-based” that the the powers that be on Daily Kos make. …read more



  1. The Author has been told, by other Kosianers, he can be expected to be banned. Just in case this does occur, we can still find this brave fellow @


    This contact info was provided by the Author himself. I believe it’s his wish to stay in touch with those who support his views, in the event of his being banned from kos, which is very likely. Kos has banned many others for much less. The place is so viral, I didn’t have the heart to withstand the immediate attacks launched at me after first joining and commenting, politely and in accordance with the rules. It reminds me of a large dog cage. I was the scrawny mut the catcher threw in for the others to bite at and quarrel over. “Troll” I was called. But of course I troll the web. Duh! Trolling as a method gathers more fish (info) in less time than trout lines do. Any kid from the midwest knows this.

    But this is not to start a discussion over kos. I’m posting this for us to see where the truth movement is succeeding in breaking through some of the barriers that were erected a few years ago. This is here to encourage others to do the same.

    Again, it’s not about kos. As far as I care, kos can crawl right back up the big D’s arse and stay there until the sun refuses to shine.

  2. Kos is CIA. His little story that he went “all the way to the end” and then flaked out to join the Dean campaign is bs.

    I was looking for the interview where he talked about his joining the CIA and found this funny little video. Made me laugh !

  3. Honestly Curt, I couldn’t stand to read all of those comments. The willful ignorance of so many Americans makes me crazy. That guy was brave to post that on Mr CIA’s website. Why don’t you invite him to join us?

    We do know a lot of what’s typed there and elsewhere disputing 9/11 truth is done by agents. I agree that we are making great progress in the movement. However, with the passage of the American Clean Energy and Security Act otherwise known as the “carbon tax us to death, take our land and our water act,” it may not matter who did 9/11. They have already accomplished what they needed to do.

    The question is, what do we do now?

    • Eat ’em?

      I remember this old cannibal, when the interviewer expressed horror that he had eaten his own children, hurriedly reassuring her with – “Oh, but they were de-licious!”

      Maybe we should have listened to him.

      Hmmm . . . Roast Baron of . . . Hmmm . . .

      And presumably automatically kosher.

  4. lol flak..and they call ME wicked !

    • Mike Rivero ( ) had/has a t-shirt that reads, ‘Eat The Rich’

      Which I thought apt.

  5. JG: ” However, with the passage of the American Clean Energy and Security Act otherwise known as the “carbon tax us to death, take our land and our water act,” it may not matter who did 9/11. They have already accomplished what they needed to do.

    The question is, what do we do now?”

    Sadly, all true. Looking any further into HOW it was done or WHO did it is really a lot like trying to save an old olk tree while they cut the whole goddamned forest down in another area. It’s a human aspect. We’re really just trying to satisfy our egos. You know, like putting ourselves in the position to say “at least I actualy DID something to try to stop it, but, oh well. At least I tried”. So then we can sleep much better, knowing we tried, no matter how futile the attempt(s).

    What do we do now? You may have gathered from our ning site RBCII with Waldopaper where we’re basically there to do our best to a) entertain one another while the ship sinks and b) to lend comfort to one another in what we see is the final phase of still having the opportunity to voice our opinions but not really bring about any fruitful changes. I know this sounds a little pessimistic, but if we’re to be honest with one another, the game’s over. There’s not a lot left to do but read, write and weap. Like sheep, we stand, all cuddled up and baahhhing as if nothing were happening as the storm rolls in. We’re fucked, to put it bluntly. Royally fucked. The Perps couldn’t give a shit if we have found them out or not. 9/11 was the most intricate and elaborate operation of all times. The pychological thread of it all was masterfully planned. How else can we explain why it was and is still being accepted as real and perpetrated by ….(see the official CT)? The brainwashing, the real pschological preperations for 9/11 started back in the 50s, I believe. It’s kinda hard to shake that when you were born in 1960 like me. I think I know where we get our “sunglasses” from though. I read a thing that described us quite well….think it was something Klown Kall may may also read….something about 9/11 truthers having a mental disease. Like we rebel at any chance we get, we question authority wherever we go and we’re suspicious of everybody, etc. We’re talking about another human trait here, one that I would call a healthy one (as long as it doesn’t go off to the extreme of panaoia or, Richard, help me out here, Schyzopfreniea). I think we were BORN with them there sunglasses. We can’t take them off, so we huddle together and disassemble, break up, spread out, lose one another and regroup, over and over again. It’s human.

    And then we die and all of the above doesn’t amount to a spec of dust of importance…. unless you believe in karma.

    • You’ve brought up some very important issues! thanks for that

      Futility and questioning authority and paranoia

      When I was a kid in the midst of an American uprising there was one important thing I didn’t know, that would have spared me alot of anguish and disappointment: that we form a part of a consciousness that has existed for centuries and that will continue after we are gone. All that is necessary is for us to keep the faith and do our part- we don’t have to do the whole thing.

      We may be frustrated with sheeple but their condition is not permanent. All it takes is one issue or event that they see through- then they question everything else. This is the fatal flaw of pimping the population through perception management and herding techniques: it just doesn’t last.

      Sometimes we are our own worst impediment because we get hostile and dogmatic when we should be persuasive and reasonable. I know that applies to me most of all….. The struggle is long and tiring. But what would we do instead? frankly, the company can’t be beat. Thanks for being out there.

  6. Jesus, Curt, thanks for making me cry. You’re right about the sunglasses. Even as I kid, I always questioned things as I’m sure you did and every other person on this blog. We didn’t need to take the “red pill” it’s in our very dna.

    Ya know, sometimes I wish I were a dumbed down little sheeple. So oblivious to all that’s happening right before their very blind eyes. They go on with their lives not knowing there is a huge hammer ready to drop on their brain dead little heads.

    I’m sure they sleep better at night than I do. What’s our knowledge gotten us but more stress and being called names like tin foil hatters, nutters & gloom and doomers? I guess when the sheeple finally wake up to what we’ve known all along we can have the thrill of saying I told you so. Those words will sound awfully hollow echoing from the cell of a fema camp.

    PS: If I haven’t said it before, I’m saying it now. I’m so thankful to have found such intelligent, well informed, red pill types such as you and everyone here to hang with till the end . And yes, I do believe in karma!

  7. I responded over at Kos as follows:

    …is a tightly constructed mass of wires and logic that is completely incapable of protecting and defending itself from, “the Big Lie.”

    Someone, somewhere, missed the class on the difference between “reason” and “logic.”

    It is not logical to presume that Xeno’s arrow will reach its intended target. However, it is perfectly reasonable.

    Similarly, it is not logical to conclude that there was inside involvement in the felling of the Twin Towers based on evidence that can be discredited. But it is perfectly reasonable to conclude that there is a strong probability of inside involvement in the felling of the Twin Towers based on evidence that in only some cases can be discredited — provided that there is some evidence in the mix that simply cannot be discredited.

    To defeat the “Big Lie” one has to be willing to accept that it is a system of logic — reason — that can be used to prove or disprove the soundness of an argument. Focusing purely on technical validity in the discrimination between good and bad arguments is an overreliance on pure logic and represents and error in judgment.

    For example, the law that, “an argument is valid if and only if it is not possible for the premises to be true and the conclusion false,” is a law for determining the validity of a logical argument.

    However, while this law works in every case where the argument is both “valid” and “sound,” it does not guarantee soundness. As follows,

    The Moon is made of blue cheese.
    The Moon is not made of blue cheese.
    Therefore, the Moon hangs in the sky.

    This is not a very sound argument. It is, however, technically valid because it is NOT POSSIBLE FOR THE PREMISES TO BE TRUE. And the conclusion can be understood to be quite true as well. So this is an example of an unsound, but technically valid, argument.

    Alot of the debunking that goes on here is of this variety — technically valid, but wholely unsound.
    A veritable cornucopia of “Xeno’s Arrowesque” argumentation and refutation abounds.

    Fact is…you can’t MOVE 110 stories of steel and concrete out of the way fast enough to enable the collapse as we saw it videotaped that day WITHOUT the use of prepositioned explosives. The fact that WTC 7 was clearly felled on the same day as the felling of the Twin Towers by prepositioned explosives only underscores the point.

    So, we can show that the arrow does, in fact, reach its destination. What is wrong with all the argumentation that refutes that insider foreknowledge and government complicity were a part of the felling of the Twin Towers? The Big Lie?

    The debate that 911 CT should be excluded is not at all reasonable.

    If ya’all wanna hang with people who get to define for everyone else what’s reasonable and what’s real, you’re more than welcome. It’s just not my cup’o tea. There’s a reason why there WAS a Bill of Rights — a set of fundamental rules — attached to the Constitution that everyone had to agree to play by in order to be invited to the party.

    For me it’s pretty obvious: if the fundamental rule to be invited to the party is that you be an ignorant jackass, I ain’t comin’ over.

  8. Sorry

    Gotta call horseshit on this. The giving up part that is. It ain’t done yet. Not even close.

    Daily KOS has been exposed, the same way that Klown Kar Kall and his site has been exposed.

    That little fact makes them less effective as propaganda vehicles. THAT is the important part.

    20 years ago, I had been pointing out the reality of the media in this country, I was considered “extreme” in many groups. Not any more.

    Exposing these assholes is a CRITICAL part of what we do. It forces THINKING PEOPLE to research. Guess where that leads them?

    Here in Minneapolis we had Media Fairs, with alternative media showing up, workshops on corporate media. HUNDREDS of people would show up. Which means that LOTS of others wanted to but could not for a variety of reasons.

    I know that I will not sit in the shivering group of sheep, baaaing “We told you so.”

    I intend to RESIST with everything I got. So will all of you and you know it.

    Shit, if we are inside the fucking camps, we will be leading the resistance from inside.

    Oh and to these bastards who are behind this, Karma will be a motherfucker.

    OK Irish is getting off his soapbox.


  9. Thanks Tony for posting this.

    DK is an F’n joke, a front to divert attention from the pertinent and contrived issues plaguing what some still like to refer to as “America.” Like OEN which, if they wanted, could have united sometime ago as one, and exposed the 9-11 lies for what they are, and helped to right this downtrodden country. They didn’t and they won’t ever!

    I remember about three weeks ago reading a folly between Medicis (Richard) and “King” Kall regarding 9/11. It was a digression from the original subject where Kall stated that he was comfortable with the 9-11 commissions findings, or something to that nature. It seems he doesn’t want the truth? Perhaps he can’t handle the truth! The facts are there.

    Having worked as a union Iron Worker on many of the high-rise buildings here, in Philadelphia and having grasped and been around those “core columns” and similar beams, which are the construct, the foundation of these buildings, I know they just don’t snap like potato chips as the perpetrators of 9-11, including this reticent, feckless and complicit corporate media would have the sheople believe. And as we’re all aware, since that time it’s been one draconian bill after the other. Keep the sheople in line. I

    If “We the People” in record numbers (tens of millions) do decide to take a “P E A C E F U L” stand against the tyranny, guess what? We’ll most likely be F’n HAARPED (regretfully Michael Cavlan, we are not referring to the name of one of my favorite Irish lagers either) or zapped, with some type of soft kill weapon. This is what we’re up, against.

    Either we get out in record numbers and “P E A CE F U L L Y” take back this country, or we have a Michael Rennie moment. However, and in no way am I capitulating, I don’t see either of the two happening.

    • You might have to double click the previous video

      And I should note the folly which I was referring was on Kall’s part, not Richard’s.

  10. Irish,

    I said what I said, because I wanted to lure our new leader out of hiding. Only a true leader would say what Irish has said. This bit holds true for each and every Irishman I’ve ever met…
    they NEVER give up.

    That doesn’t sound right, with a dash of shotty humor mixed with pride and perseverence and TRUTH (the irish are allowed to pronounce this as TRUFE).

    It worked and it stands true. Some People NEVER give up. Thank the heavens.

    airisid fén fri fulang cecha doccum- lai

  11. Well it’s TIME.. NOW is the TIME people. That was my point. What are we gonna do! I’m sure the white rose society felt just as we do. What happened to them?

    Munich is right. You know he is. They have horrible weapons to use on us and those are only the ones we know about ! Yes, we’ll go down fighting but when the hell do we start standing up.. ALL OF US! It won’t work with our little ragtag fleet. We need ALL AMERICANS TO STAND UP.

    That was my point and I have yet to see an answer ! I know Irish walks the walk, that’s not the issue. Time is running out. This new bill they passed in the house which we know they will pass in the senate is the death knell to the country we grew up in.

    NOW WHAT??!!

  12. I love it when I throw something out there and something even better comes flying back at me.

    laudyms; “we form a part of a consciousness that has existed for centuries and that will continue after we are gone. All that is necessary is for us to keep the faith and do our part- we don’t have to do the whole thing.”

    tanks for dat

  13. What a relief. I thought the whole weight of saving the world was on COTOs shoulders. I honestly did. lol
    I feel better now. Thank you.

  14. That is a great quote form laudyms….

    So here I am riding the waveform somehow wishing I could really see beyond it. Oh well.

    Maybe one thing we can do is what many of us already do which is spread information as best and effectively as we can. In addition, I have wanted to promote internet radio but always kinda worry about AJ and the impact he might have on a newbee to the rabbit hole. I found a possible alternative… or several really, on Oracle broadcasting. Listening to Herzog is the one I was listening to today after reading JG’s “Now What?” … Supporting and promoting radio shows that speak truth every day is one way; albeit a limited one.

    But getting info to folks is about all we can do….. at this point. Sponsoring or managing a mass rally is somewhat beyond me… though I would help.

    Unfortunately, George Ure in conversation with Cliff (Time Monk) .. (I know, I know … I’m a fetishist of news and predictions)… but they are predicting all kinds of not nice things happening in the autumn. When Ure expressed the belief that informing more people would be useful… Cliff replied (paraphrasing all of this, I am) that about all the people who could be influenced had been and that it would be the events of the autumn that would lead to a sea change in attitude. Well, who knows. Halfpasthuman does predict quite a lot in their recent 35 page document on the subject. Very very grim but surprisingly slightly less grim than my predictions. Who knows, who knows …. there are so many different ‘takes’…… The only thing they all have in common is ‘Grim’……..

    You take your hope (albeit an abused concept) where you can find it….

  15. Actually, a correction … all the ‘takes’ have a core of commonality in addition to ‘GRIM’ … but the devil is detail.

  16. Richard, I don’t know about George Ure or Time Monk. Where can I listen to them?

  17. The Irish? What about the Poles? The ones in Warsaw that went after the Reich Panzers with pitchforks when they ran out of guns and gunpowder?

    They jumped on the tanks and dragged the Germans out and killed ’em with pitchforks.

    The uprising in the Warsaw ghetto was one reason why Hitler was willing to do business with the Zionists who wanted to get rid of all the Jews who thought moving to their own state was a bad idea (the majority of them hated zionism..until all the opponents had been killed).

    Anyway, we shouldn’t forget the lesson that lead 6 million innocent Jews to their deaths…they were lead there by the people they thought they could trust: their betrayers.

    As for me, I’m Irish, Polish, English, Ukrainian and Cherokee…my parents met each other at the local head-shed trying to steal each other’s cigarettes.

    If we’re going to get serious, we need to identify targets and outline strategies.

    And we need to do things the way the elites do ’em…we front with a peaceful face, but then we have these easily discredited and excruable hangers-on who always seem to blow shit up at the worst possible moment. I believe the IRA adopted some of that strategy against the Brits.

    If it pisses off the British, I’m all for it.

    What are the Scots doin’ these days? If we had some of THAT DNA mixed with mine, we’d have a kid who’d kick anyone’s arse up between their shoulders AND out-golf Tiger Woods.

    • Mr V: “If it pisses off the British, I’m all for it.”

      That’s the spirit! LOL

      My various “breeders” convey a lineage of Irish, Scottish, near-Geordie (North Riding / White Rose), Cherokee (not on the rolls) and an unknown tribe, perhaps Pawnee/Osage. Far from being “British” despite the name. “Well I’m, hot-blodded, check it and see, got a fever, about a hundred and three”.

      The Poles all alright by me!

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