Posted by: thalassarche | June 3, 2009

OEN depopulates

OEN gagMy OEN profile, “Grendel”, joined the ranks of the political cyber-exiles today.  In my response to Rob, I reflect on natural justice and the rule of law – and beg his gracious pardon.



Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 11:59 AM
To: ‘’
Subject: OEN bans Grendel

Hi Rob

I find today that my profile “Grendel” has been banned from OEN without notice.  Barely a few days ago I wrote that OEN is and remains a credit to you.  I posted that statement at COTO, too, without revision.  But now, unfortunately, I must revise my view because the ban was executed without notice and without reference to OEN’s Members’ Guidelines.  By banning my profile in this way, you have ridden roughshod over the principles of natural justice and the rule of law.  You have acted in a way that no progressive can admire.

Though frequently critical and sometimes direct, Grendel never adopted a nasty tone and punctiliously eschewed ad hominem attacks.  Though sometimes discursive, he was never off-topic.  He neither spammed nor beat dead horses in the comments section of OEN articles.  In his writing, Grendel strove – with one possible exception – to record the truth without regard to political agendas.  The single possible exception was a comment comprising a single (open source) graphic, with which he semaphored acknowledgment of Keystone’s partly encoded PNAC/COTO comment on Kenny’s diary Another Sad Tale of the 9/11 Victims’ Families.  Grendel sought clearly to distinguish his evidentially supported statements from his conjectures.  He promptly and openly conceded errors of fact in his posts.  He paid reasonable attention to spelling, punctuation, grammar and style.

Grendel submitted only one article – although his OEN author page still records that “no articles have been submitted yet”.  You rejected the article for publication, as you were perfectly entitled to do.  In accordance with OEN’s writers’ guidelines, Grendel discussed the matter by back-channel email and accepted your decision.  I did post the same article together with the ensuing mail correspondence off-site at COTO, a site located outside the ambit of OEN’s editorial authority.

Grendel also submitted 40 comments, of which 24 were recommended.  But according to Grendel’s OEN author page, the number of his comments is (at the time of writing) only 39.  The removed comment responded to Suzana Megles’ diary Where’s Rady Ananda.  Grendel’s comment simply answered Suzana’s question.  It explained that you banned Rady from OEN along with many other COTO people; that your perspective on the matter was recorded in your diary, though other perspectives were to be found in the comments; and it concluded with the information that Rady was now to be found at, thereby directly answering Suzana’s primary question.  The removed comment was neither abusive nor in any respect irrelevant.  It was not flagged.  I was not contacted.

In light of what we might euphemistically call the “new tone” at OEN, I don’t expect you to give reasons for banning Grendel in terms of the Members’ Guidelines.  After all, what could you say?  I was more inclined quietly to reincarnate at OEN and to try to comply with your new sudden-death code as well as the Members’ Guidelines.

But I find that I cannot reincarnate at OEN from the same IP – although I suppose I could do so via a proxy or from a different IP.  Before embarking on either of those routes (which would be irritating enough to make maintenance of my customary politeness more of a challenge), I’d like to ask whether Grendel’s ban is temporary or permanent?  Should you in your editorial graciousness deign to lift the ban, I will undertake to ensure that Grendel comports himself in accordance with both the OEN Members’ Guidelines and (so far as its content can be guessed from experience) your new sudden-death code as well.

Best regards
Michael Lusk



  1. ah poor Grendel,
    silly boy, you mentioned the R word:-)
    seems a certain person must be foaming at the mouth, and hitting “delete” keys in a frenzy at the mere mention..and then the C..O word too.
    he will need a Bex and a good lie down after that!
    🙂 🙂
    good on ya!

  2. Fury cools. Doors are better left open. Once we’ve made COTO into a landmark site, you and Rob will be talking again.

    • “I hate to admit to a sexist stereotype, but when I get scorned…”

      i hear ya sister. it IS a stereotype, but there is really something rather beautiful in the way a woman exacts her response… complex in its simplicity, but will cut you to the bone.

      i tend to think i’ve changed over the years too. course you’ve got me curious about your “HOW.”

      in the meantime, thanks for the things you do post. it’s really the reason i ended up here.

      so, are there lines about the 9/11 stuff. from what i’m reading here a lot of people ended up because of “spamming” articles with references to 9/11 and bob at opednews saying that not every article should be boiled down to 9/11 which i guess they disagreed with.

      so what are you looking for in 9/11 stuff. should that be part of the education aspect, will they be posted like the other items, a special coto spotlight, or just like if new stuff comes up? it’s a biggie for me, but i’m also interested in the other things you’re writing about.

      somebody mentioned administrators and the heirarchy here. might be helpful to know who we should turn for specific issues, contact info, etc. or is it everyone functioning in the same capacity?

      hope you’re getting some rest rady with all your work!

      resist…and then some 😉

      • If it slithers like a snake..
        Why sleep with it??

    • Rady – there’s no going back to oped. It’s a lot more fun watching robed’s ship go down. I enjoy watching him shuffling deck chairs on the titanic! I’m the same way – if someone burns me, there is no going back. Ever.

  3. We have a newsletter?

    damn, how come I am getting out of the loop on all the fun stuff?


  4. How ya’ll doin’? For the record, I support OEN management’s decision to enforce its rules as it interprets them. After all, it’s not a government run or subsidized resource. However, I am surprised at the reach and extent of the enforcement.

    And yet… (I like “yet” better than but – it seems more sophisticated) I was more surprised at the “tone” projected in the writing of some COTO supporters both at OEN and here. “Schism Happens” – just look at the 9/11 Truth Movement and the Reynolds/Woods vs. Fetzer/Jones split. Regardless, there is seemingly no need for the bitterness expressed in words by some. Restraint of pen (and perhaps tongue) would serve these few well.

    I’m at OEN and intend to continue posting there (and hope that my posting here is not means for enforcement). And I’m still very much conservative in thought and action. However, I did find you folks entertaining – okay “lively debaters” that helped me challenge myself. Since the enforcement, I’ve been discussing more philosophical and ethical issues, which are fine, but abstract.

    I think it was pondered by laughnmatter here, “What will Tom Murphy do?” Well, he’ll see if he can bother you folks here, as well, would be the response!

    • Hey Tommy! I knew you’d get bored at robed when we got booted. You’re mr m’s alter ego on the right. Well, at least we have balance now, and finally someone to pick on 🙂

    • hey welcome tom–i KNOW you will be banned here–WE ARE ALL HONEST HERE SO FAR-but i dont think anybody wants you here hassling while these good people are building a new home —come back in about a year when they have time to adress delusional people–they and we dont have time right now—as far as sticking up for rob–man are you out there–nobody deserved to get what WE GOT FROM THE PUPPET—TRADESMAN

      • “…come back in about a year when they have time to adress delusional people…”

        So… the end is NOT that near after all…? Phew! I can plan the summer vacation after all…

        As to OEN, I support management’s decision, but that doesn’t mean I’ve become a progressive of any persuasion. What puzzles me is that if both OEN and COTO are composed of “honest” and truthful people (which both parties seem to claim), then why is there such… “bitterness” to one another – as noted in words?

        Should not civility accompany “honesty”?

        • “Progressive” like “Conservative” might be left to the side for a moment. Both persuasions have principled people and pragmatic/opportunistic people.

          I’m hoping this parting has been between the latter.

          By principled I mean people who try to live what they believe, while keeping an inquiring mind.

          I find dogmatic and senselessly provocative stuff boring. But hey- just because someone writes something, doesn’t mean I have to read it.

    • There is truth to your assertion, Ms. Peterson.

  5. Nice new gravitar, Major Tom. Is that you guarding a FEMA concentration camp site?

    • Well, given the “edge” associated with the “new zoo”, I thought it appropriate to enter wearing body armor with a full combat load. The way I see it, things could get dicey here amongst the pariahs.

      C’mon! The moniker of “FEMA concentration camps” is so yesterday! It only promoted by progressives today as a fear tactic. We all know that they are ICE holding deopts – period.

      By the way, that was me in الموصل – a stagged photo in a “silly” land with a “serious” look – oh, the irony!

      • see calling us animals already—–did ya see your fearless leader sucking up to the saudi’s today–begging for money to borrow cause all you real americans want more war–tradesman—i was only 18 when i tore up my draft card for viet-nam–glad the draft was called off two months before i was to report cause i would be dead and so would the bastard who came to get me-tradesman—and as far as ice holding pens–why did they build 1 in northern wisconsin?? no illegals up here—why did they hire people and friends to work on them for only 2 weeks then fire them — hire all new people for two weeks then fire them– then hire all new crews for two weeks then –get the point—FACT—–come to northern wis and watch the big planes chem trail the shit out of the skies –we have no big citys or even an airport for that matter—blue sky today and no planes for 3 days– geez wiz i wonder why—the airlines must have taken a new route —a fucking miricle———ps—body armor does no good in my land–my guns will go through plate steel–to harsh ya- to stupid ya-but thats real freedom isnt it—tradesman

  6. “Schism Happens” – that’s true. But this one was done in a very high-handed way at least two days before any acknowledgment of it appeared at OEN. When queried about it directly, Rob was peevish, indulged in ad hominem attacks himself, did some name-dropping and basically said “I did what I wanted” without more than simplistic excuses.

    Most of those banned were not guilty of personal attacks or spamming…just guilt by association. Which continues with anyone who posts the Coto link, evidently.

    Is this the behavior of someone who has respect for truth or critical thinking? No way.

    I doubt if anyone here cares whether you visit OEN or not. That very difference in attitude should tell you something.

    • LOL Rady

  7. Mr Murphy. You are in a house with “our rules” now, not Kall’s. What happened? Did you get bored with all the yes we can obamabots over there at oen? Or are you playing double agent?

    The odd thing about you is that I don’t remember you criticizing the current administration. In fact, you went out of your way to go after those that did. That’s a very odd way to behave for someone who claims to be a conservative republican.

    You’re a very strange duck Murphy and I’m keeping my eye on you.

    • what a champ jersy —-we have no time for his kind right now-i am married but smootch–lil butterfly

    • “I don’t remember you criticizing the current administration. In fact, you went out of your way to go after those that did. ”

      I went “after them” to demonstrate the hypocrisy of their actions. When Bush supported Guantanamo, it was trumpeted by then Senator Obama and minions as “bad”. When President Obama supported the continued operation of Guantanamo, it was pronounced by Obamaramas as “wise and prudent”. Funny how the adjectives change once the mantle of power shifts.

      I haven’t been impressed by President Obama’s first few months in office and his apparent prioritization of… “issues”. I truly disapprove of Obama’s throwing America under the bus much like he did with his grandmother, pastor, progressives, etc… Character matters to me, and in that I’ll take Bush over Obama without question.

      Change and hope was but a quippy slogan; it was true then and true now.

      Obama’s continuing policy of internal and external appeasement was tried by President Carter without much success, as I recall. While I’m a registered Republican, it seems as though there is more of a fracturing rather than schism in the party. I’d like to see “someone” emerge to assert the Republican platform anew. And please note that Mr. Limbaugh is a self-admitted, radio talk show host – not a politician.

      With that said, I disagree greatly with the extreme right as much as I do the extreme left. Both tend to only offer bitterness to the nation by focusing solely on themselves (e.g., “We are the ones we’ve been waiting for”). No offense but some in COTO represent this extreme, would any here disagree? The majority, though, represent a more moderate stance.

      While I disagree with the extreme, I admit I’m fascinated by it – especially, what makes someone think in such a narrowed manner? Perhaps that’s what has drawn me here.

      As to the rules here at COTO, you (like OEN) are free to create whatever guidelines you want. I acknowledge that here as well as I do there. As I mentioned to Rob once when the tribe was voting to oust a member, I do not covet that which I write or create. And just to be clear, as well as there, I am not a shill working for the government, controlled by handlers, and sitting in a basement bunker punching the time card. I am me – period.

      If skiidogs and Rady believe there is no time for dealing with my… silliness because the end is nigh (much like it was last summer and the summer before that); then so be it. But I’ll remind COTO of General George S. Patton’s famous quote:

      “If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”

      • I for one, am glad to see you here. I mean, I would have to have Rob or Steve the Lesser running around this place to give me more target practice than you.

        “Obama’s Appeasement”? Are you kidding? Just wait around a little there, keyboard tiger, Obama’s pickin fights with countries that actually have weapons and people that will use them. Heck, one even has nukes! Didn’t see president “Character matters” Bush kick up that much sand on the beach, did ya?

        Oh, you republicans know you’ll get all the war you want with Obama; like a 2 hour season premiere of “24”.

        Heck, he’s even torturing people, just for the fun of it (we ain’t got no more wars with Iraq to justify).

        And since we know you didn’t come here to this crowd to try and phony up some more “right/left” carnival quality wrestling matches, why did you stop by?

        Learn some new buzz words like “extremist” and “moderate”? Think that’ll get us goin? Gotta work a little harder than that. Oh, I get it… now we are those “loonies” running around with the signs… ah, that is your new trolling bait. Actually I like that one. Might get a bite or two… lets see…

        (tap tap tap)

        nope… no bites. But you are entertaining, so I say, if I had a vote that is, you should certainly stick around. After all, we ban you for your opinions and the courage to stick to them in this crowd, how does that make us any different than OEN?

      • Your comment about hypocrisy is correct. We have been reduced to two cheerleading squads with little regard to principles or actions.

        Obama has actually been more like a continuation of Bush than anyone expected. His flip flops happen almost daily.

        But hey- we’re in America! Appearances are everything. Obama is smoother and more easy going than Bush so, even if his Imperialism Engine is revved up to smokin’……. his cheerleaders are still giving him all the rope he wants. Meanwhile Rush and Newt complain and sneer, to keep their cheerleaders happy and to make us all think there really are two parties instead of just one Oligarchic Corporate Imperial sewerdom determined to rule the world and reduce us at home to peonage.

        On another subject, I personally can hold my own with and learn from anyone. Preaching to the choir is damn dull.


        • I agree Claudia. It should be fun to have Mr Murhpy around. As anyone who has read my comments at oen knows, I love a good discussion where sparks fly. It’s fun.

          But keep in mind, he agreed with Kall’s decision to kick us all off of oen without really knowing the reasons why. He wrote a nice long comment on rob’s diary about his personal feelings about it. So make no mistake, he is not exactly the “mr free speech guy” he tries to make himself out to be. How could he be when he advocates banning those whose opinions differ from management?

          • Murphy might just notice that censorship
            rules there…but not here.

            Then we’ll see what his real values are.

      • if you read unintended consqences you would see that patton was 1 in comand that shot beat and harrased the bonus marchers after world war1—that was when our government lied to vets about their bonuses that they suddenly didnt get——you will see mcarthur was their too—-patton was just a elite war dog that was nuts——but i do believe ww2 had to be faught–

    • Why do you even acknowledge him D?

  8. ahhh hey Randall.. butterfly kisses to you and Blythe both 🙂

    • GOD a threesom —that brings back the memories of the good ol days of thr 70’s—-tooooo ooold now—-but thanks for the memory re-fresh—now lets behave

  9. Where jerseyg mentioned that I wrote a comment on OEN about COTO’s banning, I’ve posted it below for all to read. I disagree that it was a “long” comment; I mean, I’ve written some whoppers there and this one really doesn’t even come close!

    For reference, though, I had written a response that was different from what was posted, but it was lost in an OEN database hiccup. I tried to recreate what I had written several hours later, but my feeling is that what I did post wasn’t as good as what I had written earlier. Oh, well! It is my comment and I’ll stand by it – naturally.

    An observation, though, prior to the comment. My wish is that all at COTO and OEN realize just HOW difficult diplomacy is to manage successfully. Take what transpired between you folks and OEN management and bring it to the global level, including the emotion. If you can picture that, I wonder if anyone here (or there) is a bit more sympathetic to what the national leaders (or more specifically – President Bush) had/have to deal with on a daily basis. That “dance” is certainly anything but easy or fun.


    “When you’re wrong, you’re wrong

    “Do conservative websites even allow opposition contributors at all?” [A question posed by John Lorenz]

    Yes, the majority do – not unlike OEN. And the same issues that are discussed within this entry and comment thread are discussed there as well. When it comes to politics and religion, posters (very much) have opinions and are not shy about sharing them with the online community.

    “Regardless, I agree with your assessment of OEN management’s decision regarding the recent bannings. Posting on OEN is a privilege and not a right. As such, there are “rules of the road” that must be followed or else you run the risk of loosing your privilege (think of a driver’s license and the speeding operator). From what I’ve read, there was more than one warning issued that apparently went either unheeded or contested outright.

    “I (sic) found the self-proclaimed COTO members very entertaining. Their assertions were “anything but” obvious to me; so, our exchanges were “lively”. But the funny part was that COTO was quite willing to “revise the obvious” if their assertions about it were countered in a rational manner.

    “Interestingly, though, were the reactions of the banned to the warnings. Anger and resentment are usually grounded in fear. This could have been fear about being excluded from OEN, fear of [what is] transpiring globally, or both. A warning should be construed as constructive criticism and a cue for honest self-review – not anger and resentment.

    “I am grateful to OEN management for permitting opposing views (e.g., conservative) to be posted on the site. While I realize that a fair number of OEN readers do not want to read the conservative rationale on an issue, I believe the clash aids in the discussion. And I thoroughly enjoy the arguments (in the term’s truest form) that follow.

    “I fully support OEN management’s decision in this matter. Leadership is never easy and great leadership is rare. Yet both were displayed here. This support from a conservative should not be construed as OEN management (or Rob specifically) has “sold out”. This is Tom, the person, and not Tom, the conservative, provided the support, and there is a difference between the two.”


    Mind you, the comment was made about one-third of the way through all the responses. Additional details have been revealed since I posted. While I could refine the above-comment in light of those details, anything I have to offer is largely irrelevant to COTO or OEN.

    • OK so we now know what you think about that. (I would posit that the fuss was more similar to power politics than diplomacy, however.)

      So how do you feel about censorship? free expression/exchange of ideas?
      the Bossa Nova? that handbasket we’re all going down in?

      • Although there are many forms of censorship (e.g., religious, political, educational, etc…), most can be dumped into government and non-government censorship. On the whole, I believe censorship is undesired. Essentially, censorship limits (as you mentioned) the exchange of ideas, which leads to miscommunication, confusion, misunderstanding, fear, anger and resentment. All of which are also undesired more so than the censorship.

        But there are occasions where I can see the need for censorship. Some obvious examples are to protect victims, respect the deceased, and to disallow discriminatory opinions. However, this process is viewed as flawed by many because opposing views disagree on exactly “who” should have the final say on what we can read and not read.

        As to bossa nova, I prefer its precursor or samba more so. Harmonics are nice but the beat is where “it’s” at.

        Regarding the handbasket that we’re supposedly in and why it’s so hot here… I don’t think “things” are THAT bad. Certainly, they could be better… perhaps much better. But humanity has been here before… survived… and prospered.

        “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to heaven, we were all going direct the other way – in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only,” – Charles Dickens.

        Sounds familiar, huh…? What we truly need in America today is NOT a cute saying like “hope and change” (aka symbolism over substance) or religious fundamentalism where murder is justified without question. We need a return to decency and respect for one another even though we may disagree. The incivility that exists today only adds to the noise and confusion and drowns out the exchange of ideas.

        If people worked on their expectations by rolling them back a bit, increased their acceptance by actually pursuing it, and check their motives before firing off an invective laden IED, we might – just might – actually hear one another. Until then, we’re just grinding trans-axles, and for a very small but vocal minority, they’re loving it. That’s the sad part.

        • I appreciate your sentiments Tom, and nicely put.

          My one comment would be that your quote from Dickens related to the French Revolution, a very nasty reaction to seriously bad times. It would be nice to think that currently things will not continue to get worse. I just can’t believe it.
          We’re at or over the tipping points wherever you look. The Oligarchs have won the war but lost us all the planet.

  10. Well Well Murphy.

    You are certainly welcome here. Just do not be to terribly offended if some of us ignore you.

    I will read your posts and thoughts, learn from them and move on.

    No offense, it is just that I have priorities with my time.

    Welcome aboard Tom

    • Understood and thank you.

  11. Major Tom,

    How interesting…yes. Welcome.

    I guess my big question would be; Are you on official duty?

    Were you on official duty at OEN?

    Does it matter?

    And…do you REALLY not see that Amerika is a police state?

    Yes this IS William Whitten

  12. Michael, welcome to the ranks of banned OEN members! I think they post the rules over there just to make it look like they actually have some, not that they ever intend on following them, especially the owner of the website. He seems to have his own agenda. It really seems like he wants to use OEN to lift himself into positions he clearly does not belong in or with. BTW, I love the photo at the top of this page! Awesome!

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