Posted by: tonyforest | June 18, 2009

Is 9/11 Research “Anti-Semitic”? by Jim Fetzer

( http://www.opednews.com/articles/3/Is-9-11-Research-Anti-Sem-by-Jim-Fetzer-090615-95.html )

Fetzer

Madison, WI (OpEdNews) June 16, 2009 – A kind of hysteria regarding 9/11 research has surfaced in multiple forms, the most blatant of which has been an assault by FOX host Glenn Beck, who has characterized student of 9/11 as “anarchists”, “terrorists” and “Holocaust deniers”.  The comparison with Holocaust deniers is patently false, of course, because Holocaust deniers deny that the (German) government committed atrocities, while 9/11 investigators affirm that the (American) government committed them. They could not be more opposite.  The use of the phrase can be politically potent, nonetheless, because it subtly conveys the prospect that anti-Semitism may be involved, no matter how faulty the analogy.

This is hardly the first time that students of 9/11 have been accused of that offense. At the “Accountability Conference” held in Chandler, AZ, February 2007, for example, the issue arose repeatedly during a press conference, parts of which are included in a 4:33 minute YouTube piece entitled, “Truthers Defend Holocaust Denier”, but none of us was defending Holocaust denial.  Some of us, including me, were defending a scholar’s research on 9/11, even though he is very critical of Israel and may even be anti-Semitic, which is not the same thing.  Suppose that is the case.  If he were anti-Semitic, which I personally deplore, would that render his 9/11 research, which is principally focused on the physical destruction of the World Trade Center, of no value?  Should it therefore be discounted, discarded, or ignored?

“Anti-Semitism”

That is a rather ironic claim to make, because “anti-Semitism” commits the same offense of discounting, discarding, or ignoring a person, their work or other attainments on the ground of their ethnicity, religion, or race.  To contend that a person’s research on 9/11, for example, cannot be taken seriously because they are anti-Semitic is parallel to discounting a person’s opinions because they are Jewish.  Either way, the conclusion (of dismissing their argument) because of other of their personal traits commits the ad hominem fallacy or, more broadly, the genetic fallacy.  An argument can be well-founded regardless of its source, including the characteristics of the individuals who advanced it, who may be lacking in virtue in other respects.  Arguments have to be assessed on the basis of logic and evidence, not the personal virtues of those who advance them.

We all have our own intellectual strengths and weaknesses, where we may not be as good in mathematics, for example, as we are in history.  Our shortcomings with respect to mathematics do not diminish our excellence in history!  Interestingly, a 9/11 researcher, Gregg Hoover, is filing a lawsuit against Glenn Beck for defamation, which appears to be entirely appropriate.  Notice that Beck is not simply attacking specific research on 9/11 but the very idea of research on 9/11.  Some of the most prominent students of 9/11 are widely admired scholars, such as David Ray Griffin and Peter Dale Scott.  Do their efforts to bring the truth about 9/11 to the American people make them racists?

The issue of anti-Semitism has to be addressed on its own merits.  It has been used as a political club to attack research on 9/11 whenever consideration has been given to the possibility of Israeli involvement in the crime.  That is hardly a stretch, since Israel has probably benefited from 9/11 more than any other political entity.  9/11 has been used to justify wars of aggression abroad against Iraq and Afghanistan—which President Obama, alas, seems to be expanding—and to constrain civil liberties at home in the form of the so-called PATRIOT Act, The Military Commissions Act, and the massive illegal surveillance of the American people, which, alas, he has yet to repeal.

I addressed some of these issues during the Ron Paul “Freedom Rally”” held on the grass in front of the United States Capitol Building on 15 April 2008.  The article I published that laid out what I had said there, “9/11 and the Neo-Con Agenda”, OpEdNews (April 22, 2008), was even featured on the front page of The Daily Paul the same day, 22 April 2008, it appeared here. During the course of my analysis of who might have been responsible for 9/11, I explicitly addressed the possibility of Israeli complicity in the crime.  I wrote,

What about Israel?

But could Israel have been involved? There are disturbing indications. The five “dancing Israels” were observed on a roof across the Hudson in New Jersey drinking and celebrating as they filmed the destruction of the Twin Towers.

Complaints by neighbors led to their apprehension in a van. The driver told the arresting officer, “We are not your problem. The Palestinians are your problem!” They would be incarcerated for 71 days until an assistant to then-Attorney General John Ashcroft directed their release.

They returned to Israel where three of them appeared on Israeli TV and explained they were there to document the destruction of the Twin Towers. Obviously, they could not have done that without knowing the Twin Towers were going to be destroyed.

The man who directed their release was Michael Chertoff, now our Director of Homeland Security, who is a joint US/Israeli citizen.

The Controller of the Pentagon at the time $2.3 trillion went missing was Dov Zokheim, another joint US/Israeli citizen.

Others in the administration with dual citizenship include Paul Wolfowitz, Elliot Abrams, Richard Pearle, Douglas Feith, “Scooter” Libby, Eliot Cohen, and John Bolton. Do any of these names sound familiar?

An especially interesting case is Michael Mukasey, our new Attorney General, who was also the judge on litigation between Larry Silverstein and insurance companies over the events of 9/11.

Who runs this country? About two weeks after 9/11, Ariel Sharon said, “We own America, and the Americans know it”.

If Israel was involved in 9/11, the American people are entitled to know.

I was confident that I would be attacked for being “anti-Semitic” for making such observations, no matter how factual, so I addressed the issue head-on:

I will be accused of anti-Semitism for telling you facts in the public domain. But it is not “anti-Semitic” to criticize the state of Israel, the government of the state of Israel, or the policies and actions of the state of Israel.

Anti-Semitism involves discounting or belittling persons on the basis of their religious orientation or their ethnic origins.

It is not anti-Semitic to object to the expansion of illegal settlements, the starvation and killing of the Palestinian people, or the butchering of a peace activist with a bulldozer! For these gross violations of human rights, we have the government of Israel to thank.

We need laws to keep dual citizens from decision-making and policy-shaping position in the US government. Who knows whose loyalty they respect?

I call upon those with joint citizenship to resign their positions in the interests of the nation—the United States of America!

It was my belief that I had been successful in clarifying the difference between anti-Semitism and research on possible Israeli complicity in the events of 9/11, but I was soon to discover that conveying this to the American people might pose a even greater challenge than I had supposed and that another distinction would require clarification, in particular, the difference between “anti-Semitism” and “anti-Zionism”.

americafirstbooks.com

The principal problem encountered with 9/11 research is not a lack of data, where disproofs of the official account are virtually boundless—see, for example, more than fifteen key findings in “Why doubt 9/11?”—but reaching the American people with what we have discovered.  Thus, when Michael Morrissey, a linguist living in Germany, created a new forum at 911aletheia.ning.com, therefore, I was delighted, since it offered the promise of interactive research among students of the case and an additional opportunity to convey our findings to the American people through a public (or quasi-public) forum.   With Michael’s encouragement, therefore, I began posting many of my studies, including “9/11 and the Neo-Con Agenda”.

As the founder of Scholars for 9/11 Truth, whose web site I maintain at 911scholars.org, I have posted links to two version of that article and a clip of my presentation at the Capitol.  Both include their own links in t urn to supporting documents.  One is a simple text version, while the other is an illustrated version at americanfirstbooks.com.  I was therefore taken aback when Michael objected to my posting the illustrated version because, he told me, it appears at americafirstbooks.com, which he said is an “anti-Semitic” site.  He thought there should be no association with such a site and insisted I remove it from 911aletheia, even though it only appeared in my own blog.  In deference to his preferences, I posted a link instead.

Americafirstbooks.com is maintained by Major William Fox, a former Marine Corps intelligence officer.  In collaboration with Capt. Eric May and SFC Donald Buswell, both of whom are former Army intelligence, I, a former Marine Corps officer, had co-authored several “false flag” warnings.  Because we are familiar with the evidence that 9/11 was “an inside job”, we have been acutely concerned that Bush/Cheney administration, elements of which—including Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and even General Richard Myers—appear to have been profoundly involved in might want to create another pretext for further “false flag” attacks and have issued warnings about them when there were causes for concern.  The warnings, principally the product of research by Capt. May and Major Fox, are archived many places.  More importantly, while I do not believe that either Capt. May or Major Fox is anti-Semitic, I have no doubt that they are “anti-Zionist”.

The word “Zionism” was not in my functional vocabulary, I must say, until very recently.  It has always been a vague term to me, which led me to feature several guests on my interview program, “The Real Deal”, including Steven Lendman (on March 13, 2009) and Barry Chamish (on March 30, 2009), where our interviews are archived at radiofetzer.blogspot.com.  I formed the opinion that the concept of Zionism combines a belief in Jewish superiority with the presumption of entitlement to the lands that Jews (presumably) once occupied in Palestine, regardless of the consequences for Palestinians.  This is an issue I would subsequently discuss with David Ray Griffin, who is also a professor of religion emeritus and expert in this area.

911aletheia.ning.com

The differences between Michael Morrissey and me came to a head over a paper by a high-school physics teacher, Charles Boldwynn, in which he uses vector addition to demonstrate that it would have been physically impossible for the Twin Towers to have collapsed from the force of its top floors falling down on the floors beneath them.  Chuck fashioned his calculations around the North Tower, assuming that the top 16 floors were falling onto the bottom 94 as a consequence of the damage from the plane and the fires that followed, which ostensibly weakened the steel and caused the upper floors to fall on the lower.  This is a fantasy, since neither the damage from the planes nor the subsequent fires could have brought this about (as I explain in “Why doubt 9/11?”), since the fires burned neither hot enough nor long enough to bring this effect about.

Michael, rather to my astonishment, objected to Boldwynn’s study on the ground that he personally could not follow his calculations.  I have archived it several places, including at Scholars site, 911scholars.org, under “Articles” as the first appeariing under the subheading “General Articles”, where anyone can download it to study for themselves.  He took a different approach by asking how much energy would have be required for that 16-floor section to have caused the bottom 96 floors to collapse and discovered that it would have been enormous, as I’m going to explain.  (The very idea is even more preoposterous in the case of the South Tower, where the top 30 floors pivot and start to fall from the structure, but then turns into very fine dust in mid-air, which has to be the most stunning and anomalous feature of the destruction of the towers—apart from the fact that they are both turned into very fine dust at the rate of free fall!)

Michael had more than one reason for objecting to Boldwynn’s work, since it also appeared—or a summary of his findings—on a web site called “Real Zionist News” that is clearly anti-Semitic.  I tried to explain that the exclusion of his study on the basis of its origins is an example of the genetic fallacy, which is especially egregious in this instance because mathematics is not amenable to evaluation on the basis of the political orientation of its author.  Like deductive arguments generally, if the inference from the premises to the conclusion is valid and the premises are true, it is not possible for the conclusion to be false.  And those considerations apply no matter who might have advanced the argument, even if it were Adolf Hitler himself!

Mathematics and Truth

Because Michael insisted that he would not countenance studied he personally could not understand, I responded by offering a translation of Boldwynn’s argument in ordinary language that he might be better positioned to appreciate its significance.  Here is the content of the post which I advanced, which I subsequently submitted to Bodlwynn for confirmation.  I asked him if I had understood him properly, to which he replied, “yes your synthesis of my thesis is correct and very [well] put and clearly [expressed]”, in the vernacular of Skype “chats”. Here is what I wrote translating the argument for Michael’s benefit:

About Boldwynn’s paper, his thesis is very clear: that it would have taken the equivalent of 48,000 tons of explosives to equal the kinetic energy (energy of motion) that the top 16 floors of the North Tower (taking the plane to have hit at the 94 floor and subtracting 94 from 110 = 16) would have had to exert upon the bottom 94 floors for their “collapse” to have initiated the collapse of those 94 floors. John Skilling, one of the senior engineers of the firm that built the towers, had observed that they could carry 20 times the expected “live load” (that is, physical steel and concrete structure plus office furniture and human beings) that they would ever be expected to carry.
This is an impressive argument, which completely vitiates any claim to scientific significance of the claim that the Twin Towers “collapsed”. I also told him Michael that I had featured Charles on my radio show on 10 June 2009, which should be posted at radiofetzer.blogspot.com in the next few days. I expressed regret that we are parting ways over this and (what I take to be) his excess of zeal as an anti-anti-Semite, because it functions as basis for excluding arguments from posting and discussion simply on the ground that they are “associated” with “anti-Semitism”, in the case of Boldwynn’s summary, or anti-Zionism, in the case of my “9/11 and the Neo-Con Agenda” in its illustrated version by virtue of being posted on americafirstbooks.com.  His unwavering attitudes have led me to create an alternative form at 911scholars.ning.com, where I have posted them and additional studies by Elias Davidsson, David Ray Griffin, and others serious students of 9/11.

Charles believes it was actually much greater than that, but even using Skilling’s more conservative figures, he has calculated that the force required to collapse the lower 94 floors (using vector addition and subtraction of forces) which would have required the combined weight of some 588 16-floor equivalents (taking into account that those uppermost 16 floors were not as heavy as lower 16 floor units because the steel was not as thick) before collapse would ensue; or, using the thought of those 16 floors falling through space downward onto the lower 94, that that 16-floor unit would have to be elevated to a height of 120 miles above the remaining 94 for it to possess enough energy of motion to collapse the remaining 94; or, alternatively, that the energy required would be equivalent to that of 2.4 (Hiroshima sized) atomic bombs, which clearly was not available from the miniscule potential energy that was allegedly released by the fires weakening the steel and causing the top 16 floors to collapse on the bottom 94.

The Search for Truth

Michael has expressed disappointment with me because, during a much earlier exchange on the forum for Scholars for 9/11 Truth, I had sided with him in objecting to discussions of Holocaust denial on that site.  I was not thereby opposing research on Holocaust, however, but excluding it because it has nothing to do with 9/11 research.  The possibility of Israeli complicity in the events of 9/11, however, is within the scope of 9/11 research, and yet Michael wants to exclude it, too. That’s just a bit much. We have seen that “anti-Semitism” has been used as a club to thwart and discredit 9/11 research by many, but we have a moral and intellectual obligation to pursue it, nevertheless.  If Israel was involved in 9/11, the American people are entitled to know.

I suggested that David Ray Griffin might be an appropriate arbiter of our differences.  By sheerest coincidence, he called me a few days ago in relation to his appearance on my program.  When I raised the question of whether anti-Zionism was equivalent to anti-Semitism, he told me that, before he became involved in 9/11 research, he had begun drafting an article on the nature of Zionism, where he said he had distinguished between some five different senses, ranging from a generalized desire for a Jewish homeland to the strongest and more commonly used sense of an amalgam of belief in Jewish superiority with an entitlement to the lands of Palestine.  He indicated to me that Zionism has a political dimension that makes it distinct from Judaism and that “anti-Zionism” in that sense is distinct from and not a form of anti-Semitism.  I dearly hope that he will complete the article that he had only begun.

No one should be afraid of research, even research on complex and controversial subjects, whether it is JFK, 9/11 or the Holocaust. I, like Michael, believe in the historical reality of the Holocaust. Neither he, nor I, nor anyone else, for that matter, should worry about someone wanting to do work in that domain because, if their research is sound they will inevitably be led to conclude that it was real! None of us, for example, would worry about someone doing research on whether or not the Earth is flat.  Holocaust deniers are in a similar plight: if they do their homework properly—and, of course, if we are right in our belief in its reality—then they should arrive at the conclusion that it was real.  And if we are wrong, we need to know that, too.  Either way, there is no moral or intellectual warrant for censoring inquiry.

Research, even on complex and controversial subjects, should be open and unfettered, regardless. There is certainly no good reason to fear research on subjects like these, especially by resorting to the use of elementary fallacies—such as the ad hominem, the genetic fallacy, and guilt by association—that I spent 35-years teaching freshmen to avoid. I believe that every thoughtful person, especially professional scholars, will side with me about these things.  Indeed, it would like to think that every American would recognize that politics should not be put ahead of the search for truth.  We have seen too much of that from the last administration, which has been doing everything it can to place obstacles in the search for truth about 9/11, especially.  It is the highest form of respect for those who died that day to know how and why they died, which, alas, we have certainly not yet been told by our own government.

http://www.d.umn.edu/~jfetzer/

McKnight Professor Emeritus, University of Minnesota, Duluth; Founder, Scholars for 9/11 Truth; Editor, Assassination Research.
+++ the subsequent discussion which ensued as a result on …..you guessed it! OpEdSlooze. Click here.  Reprinted with permission.
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Responses

  1. Rob Kall’s initial response;

    “911 truthers and antisemitism

    I am sure there are many 911 truthers who are not antisemitic, probably most of them. But there are definitely some who absolutely ARE antisemites.

    Your writings are part of the problem Jim. Take a look at the reprinting of your report on the Israelis on the van. You didn’t document a bit of the claims you made. That’s sloppy journalism and even worse academic work, since being an academic is part of your bio. Not even one link!! It’s sloppy, poor journalism and worse “research.”

    Your arguments about the difference between Jews and zionists can be true sometimes but often, anti-semites hide behind the use of the word zionist to spew hatred. There are some, like Steven Lendman who are able to effectively parse the differences and come down hard on Israel. I have personally written critically about AIPAC, Israeli right winger fundamentalists, parties and policies. But then there are the abusers, which include holocaust deniers. We’ve banned more antisemites who are 911 truthers from this site than any other group. And don’t tell me about protecting Israel. Again, if you look at the site, you will see hundreds if not thousands of articles critical of Israel and zionists, though I think your definition of a zionist is just one and at that, one which many would disagree with.

    Bottom line– you are right that 911 truth research is not antisemitic, but writers repeating undocumented, unsupported claims contribute to the antisemitism which is too common among 911 truthers. And this behavior definitely hurts the message and the movement.

    And btw, we ban, without warning, people who violate our terms of use, including holocaust denial, which we consider to be hate speech.

    by Rob Kall (952 articles, 4176 quicklinks, 374 diaries, 2083 comments [44 recommended, 3 rejected]) on Wednesday, Jun 17, 2009 at 9:42:32 AM”

  2. You can’t inhibit Glenn Beck and the Fox Co. from expressing all kinds of sick comments, they will exhibit their distorted versions of everything and everyone as they wish.

    But we can, and must eventually invest every effort, individually as collectively, to build a united force of truth seekers who concentrate on spreading the undisputed facts and evidence regarding the demolition of the WTC, emphasizing the basic issues:

    1. The logical conclusion that 9/11 must have been an inside job, and, resulting from this,

    2. the demand for an independent investigation of 9/11, by a panel of international experts.

    At this point, it is NOT important, rather futile to waste time and energy on discussions of the very details, which to determine factually would be the main objective of the new investigation, as what exactly brought the towers down, who exactly is to blame, etc. etc..

    Fighting against each other about different theories of what actually happened on 9/11 only weakens the 9/11-truth-movement, and virtually invites those Becks and O’Reillys to mock us at every opportunity.

    • If you don’t present a valid, logical hypothesis about what happened and how the buildings “fell”… how exactly is it that you are going to convince anyone that we need a new investigation?

      • Sure, but we do have a valid, logical hypothesis: the buildings were brought down by controlled demolition, according to the most evident facts known, as they are convincingly presented on the ae911truth-site, for example.

        What technology exactly was used (which question is a main subject of the “internal” fights of 9/11 truthers), THAT to determine would be a major objective of the investigative panel.

        • In the statement I made on down the posting here, were explosive residue to be found in the dust, you would have your investigation; it’s the law. A criminal investigation, not another
          truth and reconciliation” or Warren Commission type, but a real, criminal investigation.

          Now, to find out what technology was used to bring them down is also not hard. Standard tests can be conducted, right now, by Jones and the other scientists, to determine not only IF conventional hi-explosives were, used, but exactly which ones, and in what amounts.

          And again, if those trace residuals are found, and they will be, then, by law, there HAS to be a new investigation. You get what you want.

          Jones has the material. We know how to conduct the tests. So the question is “what now?”.

  3. First Dave, agreed.

    Second. Hey guys, so THAT is why we were banned without any warnings.

    We are anti-Semitic, holocaust deniers.

    Good old Rob Kall.

    Just how credible are slick, snake oil salesmen anyway?

  4. Wait
    I just caught something.

    Glen Beck of Fox Snooze calls 9-11 Truthers anarchists, terrorists and halocaust deniers.

    Klown Kar Kall of Op Ed Snooze calls COTO folks and other “left-right” “extremists” anarchist, terrorists and mentally unbalanced.

    Go figure.

  5. It has been suggested that many of the deaths in nazi camps were caused by typhoid. The theory cannot be debated without invoking the wrath of the ADL or Morris Dees,FBI,CIA,NSA etc etc.

    What a sad state of affairs that our nation has been hijacked by AIPAC and we cannot even complain about it !
    Pass the bagels and dip Me in lox. I am going to bitch and I dont care if it hair-lips everbody on split-top ridge !

  6. The Holocaust cannot be denied.

    The illuminati planned the holocaust to create the state of Israel and the a universal attempt to destroy the anti-semitic movement who knew the ultimate goal of complete financial rule. They have also orchestrated the deaths of 20 million Christians and Muslims which never receives the attention it is due.

    For too many years we have been suckered into the hot and cold wars by the Elite tribes of Europe, Russia and other Caucasian Royal frauds. The point is for us to lose the wars but they win the battles. These billionaires layed claim to Judaism and Christianity a long time ago and scattered to banking centers around the world.

    I choose not to talk in terms of Zionism but in secular poisoning of the diaspora into a neo-fascist identity. Just as the Prescott’s Warburgs, Rothschilds, Rockefellers and other US coporate moguls funded, organized and aided in this venture, so did the socialist Fabians.

    Shortly before the Holocaust, 92% of the world’s Jewish population was Ashkenazi in origin and thats why they were targeted for extinction. The R-M17 chromosomes in Ashkenazi Jews represent the vestiges of the sinister Khazarian bloodline identifying it was limited to either a single founder or a few closely related men, and does not exceed 12% of the present-day Ashkenazim. These Khazarian [religious frauds] have filtered from Northern Caucasia to the corners of the world and interacted with all faiths.

    Zionism was hijacked by these miscreant nomads as was the Western Neo-Con pagan religious sects under US Manifest Destiny. What should have been a peaceful assimilation was never intended by these frauds. As with Hitler, 911 was a similar collaboration of religious and royal frauds from Russia, US, Israeli and Saudi who have the means and control of the media, intelligence and military. False flag and false faith have been quite effective as a means to get Liberty lovers to succumb under the fear to submit to just about anything.

    It is stunning to continue to watch the shills and administrators manage the populations perceptions with this oh so obvious rouse.

    Their tentacles reach deeply into the F500, ADL, SPLC, Congress, Wallstreet and law enforcement.
    The ability to manage, by this COMMITTEE is greatly enhanced by the FISA, Patriot Act, HS, FBI and CIA here in the homeland.

    Once again you can look at these products and see that these were not necessary to implement as a result of the cold war and terrorism but vice-versa to achieve the ultimate control of the ruling fascist COMMITTEE. Wagging the dog for certain.

    Anti-semitism is politically incorrect to describe a loathing of common criminals who just happen to claim judaism. I loathe Netanyahu equally as I do Dick Cheney.

    It is likely that the people screaming anti-semitism are the leaders of the faction who ultimately enabled the holocaust. Simple!

    • Such a powerful and poignant post Patrick.

      It is indeed stunning to continue to watch the shills and administrators manage the populations perceptions of the rouse.

      If a vast majority of people understood who is behind the curtain controlling the rouse. The on going deception, malevolence and the cognitive dissonance which is destroying the very fabric of our society.

      There have been many illegal wars in our time, and 9/11, the inside job that it was, the “Mutha” of all catalysts the sheople swallowed hook, line and sinker, which then allowed the controllers to begin managing and then jettisoning into action their horrid plans of perpetual (oil) war for perpetual peace, and at any cost.

      And I’m certain you remember what it was that we were all told? “Either you are with “us” or you are with the terrorists.” Hence the labeling of the Truth movement as extremists and mentally unbalanced.

      Taalam sums it best

      • Thanks Munich but I think Talaam just uped me on powerful. Great video.
        We have been enablers far too long for the continued genocide of third world countries.

        I fight sickness and depression everday over this. I am so fed up with the BS they spew like so much bile. I’ve had enough. They’ll get nothing from me anymore.

        No more obedience, no more conformity and no more passiveness. I am at war now. It’s time for the 1% solution.

  7. Re 9 / 11: “anti-semitic” = They done it.

    Speaking for myself, I don’t like hyenas eating innocent babes, so I suppose that makes me anti-hyena and anti any of the same hyenistic inclinations. If anybody wants to say that’s anti-semitic too, then go ahead. Not only are you welcome, but should you so say, then I will proclaim it.

    Anybody on?

  8. Rk.. what a stellar human being ! Seriously though, if I didn’t type in Jim Fetzer’s name to locate his article, I would never have found it.

    What a lyin’ piece of crap Kall is. I suppose all here are anti semites. I for one am very anti zionist and not ashamed to say it. They are the most racist bunch of pompous asses on the planet.

    And another thing, I wish Fetzer didn’t say.. “I’m a huge fan” (of Mr Snakeoil) That really ticked me off especially after he called him a liar…

    • Fetzer should tear Kall apart on Kall’s claim that Fetzer used “sloppy, poor journalism and worse “research.”… all you have to do is go to on of Kall’s breathless hyperbole articles of the “freedom movement” in Iran right now. Kall is citing twitters that are now known to be fake, websites like Stratfor that have been called the intel service for the “shadow CIA”.. and that is if he makes any references at all. Just read some of the charges he levels at the president of Iran without ANY supporting evidence at all.

      His articles are nothing but rabble rousing propaganda. And he gives Fetzer a hard time about “poor journalism”?

      • This man has gotten downright nasty as of late. Something crawled inside him, this is certain.

        The winds have changed and the people of all lands are beginning to see the research is flawed. There is no source from which you can trust except thine eyes or gut.

        Rob & the Kall Korral have claimed Liberal MSM as the gospel. He is watching his little empire and tidy core disappear. Sounds like Jim Fetzer will be walking the same fine line until he goes poof!

  9. All this is, is another distraction to try to fragment those seeking truth.

    Who and why committed 9/11 will be determined when and if there is ever a real investigation.

    Our one main focus should be to educate as many people as we can, from there matters should take a life of their own.

    If it should happen that governments fall, be it ours, Israel, Britain or any other over this, so be it.

    I personally don’t have any malice against any ethnic group of people, there is only one group of people that I have malice for, those that planned, carried out and continue to cover-up 9/11.

    “Though the heavens may fall, let truth be told.”

  10. The childish bickering, in-fighting and the splits have sent us off in seperate directions and as a result, seriously weakened the movement. The first big split between Jones and Fetzer must have happened in a similar fashion. I don’t know as I wasn’t there. I do know that the split came at a time when I had used up most all of my imagination trying to fugure out what happened. I knew it was an inside job from day one on (see my comment to JG somewhere else on this friendly site) and my batteries were running very low as I continued to pound it out, day after day. Judy Wood started her new web pages just about the same time Jim was looking for a new webmaster/html guru. It just so happened that I was very into html at that time and still very into the movement so I called Jim so we could discuss how to go about me replacing the (9/11) student who had been keeping the page up. 11 Sept. 2001 all the way up to the day I phoned Jim up, from Germany, I knew we had to work very hard, on a daily basis to get the word out. I kept on shouting and shouting, writing and html-ing like a madman. Nothing came back in return, no echo, no “yay team!” Nothing. Nothing except ridicule from co-workers, family & friends. I got used to being laughed at BECAUSE I knew that wouldn’t last long.

    The day after Jim and I spoke, I decide I was in too deep and in need of a long rest, without the blogs, the daily html work I was doing, the skyping etc. I dropped the ball. At that time, I was certain it would be better to let go and come back later because that’s the way thing are in life. You sometimes have to let go after trying too hard.

    These splits. They’re driving me up a wall! Why can’t we all just get along? We have one basic idea we all agree on. It was an inside job. Dave Hunter said it best. #1 and then #2. Bingo. This is precisely why I decided to take the invite to join the new aletheia discussion group. I thought I could help these guys pull it back together again. On a lighter side, most of the scholars I’ve dealt in the 9/11 movement with have the greatest respect for people like me. I have a high school diploma and I’m proud of it. The only time I ever spent on any campus was to visit or play music. My Dad says it was a good idea NOT to go to college. He said that if you study too long, you end up forgetting how to tie your shoes.

    This latest split happened right before my eyes. I went off with my bike for the weekend and when I came back, Morrissey and Fetzer and another scholar had each other in verbal headlocks. I wasn’t about to step between them. Another thing Dad always said was “don’t try to stop two women from fighting, you’ll get yourself killed dead”. I suppose the same applies to scholars, cross dressing or not.

    The dust has almost settled. No real harm done and Jim Fetzer makes, imho a very good point with this article. I just wished these two hadn’t gone to OEN to wash their dirty laundry. Well, so much for advising a scholar how NOT to tie his shoes.

    I have the feeling I’ve made myself the laughing stock of COTO because of this. Not quite sure what to do now. I think I’ll go get my deflated ball and go back home for a while.

    I was gearing up to write a better piece on disinformation but have since decided not to bother as one new charachter who entered the scene only yesterday had both Fetzer & Morrissey throwing their hands up in the air and just praising the Lord…. “Killtown is here!”

    Like, who give a flying fuck? I don’t.

    So this Killtown, whoever he or she may be, writes this on Jim’s new ning network ;

    “Oh geez. As I’ve said before, those people who write long, drawn-out articles on who’s “disinfo” and what theories are “hoaxes” are probably the real shills.”

    I’m out of here.

    Later

  11. [...] Is 9/11 Research “Anti-Semitic”? by Jim Fetzer « C.O.T.O.. June 18th, 2009 | Category: Uncategorized | Leave a comment | [...]

  12. I want you to all think back on the history of the ground roots investigation of 9/11.

    When people started looking seriously into the controlled demolition hypothesis…

    … Along came Steven Jones (same Steven Jones who admits that he was tasked by the Energy Department to submarine (review) cold fusion study) and Steven Said “Oh yes… controlled demolition definitely… but don’t look at conventional explosives… lookie here at this THERMITE! See it burns and they could cut steel with it… THERMITE!! is the stuff.”

    So for a year thermite was “the stuff”…

    Then people started questioning the make-up of the dust and the sulfer they found in their samples and the question became, what is this…

    Steven came to the rescue… “No! LOOKIE HERE! It’s THERMATE! Even more sinister… even more thermity than thermite. IT’S MILITARY GRADE!!! Don’t look at any but THERMATE!”

    Well, that became the big thing in 9/11 Truth, thermate. Military, of course…

    Then people (like myself at 911 Blogger) started questioning the Holy Grail of 911 Truth. We started asking questions about what the explosive velosity of thermate was… could it be used to blow up the concrete floors… did it “blow up” at all?

    Steven then comes to the conclusion (after his buddy tried to run the “thermobaric” nightmare past us…) “Look over HERE! IT’S NANO-THERMITE! It’s even BETTER than regular THERMITE… (forget about that “thermate” stuff, ok?)… it’s NANOTECHNOLOGY!!! Isn’t that special?

    and of course, the “nanothermite” when combined with an “organic compound” COULD, POSSIBLY, MAYBE, IF, produce a burn rate faster than the speed of sound which would create a concussion wave and therefore COULD, POSSIBLY, MAYBE, IF,… be explosive… maybe.

    And low and behold the entire 911 truth movement said “wow”…

    And then, Steven Jones discovered that he had OVERLOOKED the great “red/grey” chips in the dust samples he had been carrying around with him for YEARS!!!

    And GUESS WHAT THEY TURNED OUT TO BE!

    Guess….

    Even in this new paper, you look at it, they WILL NOT express a value for what they think the rate of ignition is. How fast it burns. The reason? If it doesn’t burn fast enough, it can’t be an “explosive” much less a “high explosive” as would be required to do what we all clearly saw on Sept. 11.

    Why does a scientist and a “careful researcher” miss such an important part of the equation in his work?

    Why does he state in the paper, that they don’t even know if this “active nano-thermetic material” is even explosive, and also suggest that researchers test for residual traces of conventional explosives in the 9/11 dust? Why does he suggest others do it, then refuse in my emails to do it himself?

    Just like Greg Roberts refused me over a year ago when I did the research and put the paper together to prove that conventional explosives were used on the towers.

    Why have so many people at Bentham resigned after that paper was published?

    The paper is hogwash, it’s a red/grey herring. Conventional explosives were used to bring down the towers and building 7 and certain people have been installed in this community to do everything they can to keep researchers from looking into it.

    There are tests that can be run. Simple tests to determine the presence of trace residual elements of explosives.

    http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2009/04/07/some-straight-forward-questions-for-steven-jones-on-the-subject-of-his-research/

    I would be interested in anyone’s feedback.

    • Well, I suppose even in COTO it’s difficult to challenge the established hierarchy of the 9/11 Truth movement.

  13. The “misinformation” plants in the “truth movement” are telling enough. Straw men. Stalking horses. Herrings of every color.

    If God Herself were to come down out of the clouds and tell all the world it was an “inside job,” I doubt if it would make any difference. Most of us tend to believe what we WANT to believe.

    There was probably a Mossad connection in the 911 op… US govt. “officials” have quietly admitted as much. Does this make “research” anti-Israel… and therefore “anti-Semitic?”

    The Israelis had their country hijacked by the same neo-con banksters that hijacked the USA… complete with their complicit coterie of nut-ball bible/ torah smackers.

    There are Refuseniks in Israel who are just like us. We are the COTO.

    • I thought your arse was headed north.

      See how wrong some of us can be?

      Man, I hit another fucking vein with this shit, eh?

      I wanted to quit digging years ago. Just ask Mark (my personal guru).

  14. There were questions after the JFK assassination. A lot of people didn’t believe the “lone nut with a magic bullet” government cover story. Eventually there was a new investigation and it found that it wasn’t a lone nut with a magic bullet.

    And?

    Was the bloody coup of ’63 undone? Were the perps brought to justice? Did the American people, most of whom now fully understand that it wasn’t a lone nut with a magic bullet, rise up?

    As I happen to believe that 9/11 was an inside job, I don’t think that a new investigation by the insiders will accomplish anything. No matter how many times I investigate myself, I always seem to find that I’m a very admirable person, and it doesn’t seem to matter how many people might disagree or what the facts are.

    I do admit to having my biases and prejudices. In particular, I’m leery of people with backgrounds or training in psy-ops and disinfo. And even if that is irrational paranoia, it doesn’t mean they’re not out to get me.

    I had a formative experience when I was in the first grade. I had a good friend at school and then I made another good friend. The first one said that if I was going to be friends with the second one, I could no longer be their friend. So I dropped both of them. Been pretty much a loner ever since. I’ll advocate, but I won’t organize.

    I like Michael Morrrissey and I helped edit one of his books. I like Jim Fetzer and I was on his radio show once.

    I do like to know the purpose of research. For example, if I put a few million people in concentration camps, don’t give them enough to eat, work them very hard, and don’t let them out, the chances are that many of them will die. So I prefer research on preventing that sort of thing from happening (Did homosexuals, trade unionists, Communists, Catholics, Slavs, Roma, and others in Nazi concentration camps have the same gene as Ashkenazi Jews? Did the Nazis believe that they did? Does anyone today believe the same thing?) to inquiries into how many were shot, gassed, starved, or died of disease.

    The research that should be done at the moment isn’t into past shocks, but future ones. How are the invasions of Iraq and Venezuela going to be justified? Will the billions being spent by the CIA to overthrow those regimes and replace them with regimes more obeisant to U.S. business interests result in coups, assassinations, or military invasions? Have the plans for the next false flag operation already been signed off on by the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the President, and do they involve nuking a U.S. city and blaming it on Chavez or Ahmadinejad?

    I too am overjoyed that Killtown is here. But I also believe that “here” is kill-town.

  15. Oops, typo, I meant “Iran and Venezuela,” not “Iraq and Venezuela.” We’ve already invaded and occupied Iraq. Why doesn’t this thing let me edit?

    • because it knows you are “….. a very admirable person”

      You know Killtown? Holy Forking Chrysler. How can I get back to Kansas? Like, real quick?

  16. [...] Originally posted here: Is 9/11 Research “Anti-Semitic”? by Jim Fetzer « C.O.T.O. [...]

  17. We all know it was an inside job. There is more evidence that points to that than there were particles of concrete dust that fell all over NYC that day.

    What does it matter exactly what brought three buildings down that day? The truth is, buildings do not fall down at free fall speed from fire. There were obviously explosions @ squibbs which tells us something, eh? Maybe they used lasers too ….

    Dave Hunter and I have agreed before and I’m agreeing with him now. We are on the same page. Truthers need to stop dividing over different theories. There was obviously controlled demolition to bring them down. WTC7 was obviously imploded and the twins came down in the same fashion… and left pools of molten metal simmering for ..how long?

    I really don’t see what more we need to learn about the collapse of the buildings.

    If you guys have other theories and a way to prove them other than what we’ve already learned.. let’s hear it. I for one am all eyes and ears ..

    • Thanks for your support on this most important issue, jerseygirl! We have agreed before, and we will agree in the future – let’s keep walking the line!! That fussing and fighting must stop, the core objective must be fostered, by all means!

  18. According to United States Law, the discovery of trace residual signatures of high explosives, like PETN and RDX at any fire or suspected arson or “terrorism” site, immediately begins a full, criminal investigation.

    Neither The Joint Congressional investigation, FEMA, NIST I and II (Building 7), nor the 9/11 Commission Report were “criminal investigations”.

    In every single official report filed on the matter (see above) each made the statement that they DID NOT TEST FOR EXPLOSIVE RESIDUE.

    Even the recent “Active Thermetic Material Paper” by Jones et al, makes the same statement; they didn’t test for trace signatures of conventional explosive materials…

    Why? We all think it was a demolotion job. Why would Jones simply test for it?

    The NIST reports were trying to PROVE it WASN’T a demolition job. If that was the case, why wouldn’t they run the tests and say, “See? It’s not there. The 9/11 Truthers are WRONG.”

    Why wouldn’t they do that?

    Because it is there. It has to be. And that is why they didn’t run the tests.

    Every single suspected terrorist attack scene has been tested for explosive residues except 2; WTC and the Pentagon.

    The tests are standard, and easy. They even make kits you can buy online. They have companies that you can send the samples to.

    But nobody will run it.

    Why is it important?

    1. Well obviously, if we find the massive amounts of explosive residue in that dust, there is no possible explanation for it other than controlled demo.

    2. A new mandatory criminal investigation is more open than say NIST (department of commerce) or the Commission Report (Philip Zelikow) would not only deal with the physics of the case, but also the much needed circumstantial elements of it; as in, who had the opportunity, who profited from it, who had access to the building, and who set up the distraction (terrorist attack).

    3. I don’t know about you guys, but I have tried explaining the laws of physics, collapse times, A-36 steel melting temps, “open” office fire temps, UL tests conducted on floor truss systems, … ect. ect. ect. to thousands of people. Some have paid attention long enough, maybe, but… it’s a hard sell. PETN residue in that dust means it was a controlled demolition. By law, and by common sense. That’s it. End of story. You find that residue, and by law, it opens a new investigation.

    Right now, the “Truth” movement is losing ground. Even though there have been a few interviews recently, many Truth sites are just folding up, Truth Meetups are turning into WeArechange sites and actually discouraging displaying “Truth” type banners and shirts.

    We are in trouble. We need to formulate something to shake this investigation up.

    I say we go back to the basics. Back to where we would have been had the herrings not shown up and led us down the Primrose Path.

  19. Has everyone seen this?

    I believe this is Air America shill Mark Maron, who let’s Veniste prattle on with the lies about 9/11.

    Maron, who looks and sounds like an AIRHEAD, and Air America are an F’n disgrace!

    • Omg Munich… Ben-Veniste is such a freakin liar. He knows EXACTLY what happened on 9/11. He’s holding up the tractor mag Popular Mechanics as the great debunker of 9/11 truth.. LOL Ok, I have to turn this off before I throw something at my monitor……

  20. Purrrr…….החתול לגרגר

    What is the difference between a Catholic wife, and a Jewish wife ?

    מה ההבדל בין אישה קתולית ושל אשתו יהודית?

    The catholic wife has real orgasms and fake diamonds.

    הקתולית יש את אישתו ואת זיוף אורגזמות נדל היהלומים.

    Purrrrr……. החתול לגרגר

  21. I tip my hat sincerely to the researchers. All of you. I can’t focus on 911 anymore. You had me at “free fall”

    I’ve read you all and bow. JG is right. The infighting stinks and I’d like the scientific brain trust to look at Carnicom, Wood and the Woodpecker HAARP, GWEN, ELF, and the looming cyber attacks.

    Major issues have recently been brought to my attention. All internet and telecom services are being rerouted through the Israeli AMDOCS and Converse Infosys.

    They have hijacked my faxes for over a year since I was on the faxblast campaign with Congress.

    Twenty years of calling out Congress finally got me on the investigation list. So I sent letters to FBI, DOJ and asked if I was under investigation. They replied with the lie.

    During my discussion with Freedomvoice a level 2 guy spilled the beans. I don’t care, mind you but they are causing my doctors greif having to refax multiple times.

    Once again, the looming cyber scare is just a rouse to spy on Puddy Dunne, the anti-semite. Idiots, how do they expect to win if they can’t handle a little job like 911 and a fax.

  22. The Author requested a better representation of the original URL which I have on edit, added to the very top of this post.

    In case you have any infuence over futher copies or links to
    this, please assist by adding the original URL ;

    http://www.opednews.com/articles/3/Is-9-11-Research-Anti-Sem-by-Jim-Fetzer-090615-95.html

    many thanks, curt

  23. I see nothing wrong with attempting to solve the crime of 9/11, each and every one of us who has an interest. I welcome discussion about the details. One should have a reasonable explanation of what, who, and why, in order to understand how deep in it we really are now.
    WillyLoman made a very good point about looking for conventional explosives. It’s funny Jones has not focused on that. Funny David Ray Griffin does not even have a listing for Mossad or Israelis in his index in either Debunking or Omissions. Funny a smart guy like Fetzer can barely define Zionism, even though a bunch of articles have appeared recently describing it as a political movement. Funny OEN does not post the work of Christopher Bollyn, as though his research was nonexistent, or his editors are ignorant.
    As for anti semitism, nobody is more antisemitic than the Caucasian Khazars destroying the semitic Palestinians. Anyone who is willing to debate these facts with Zionists is going to be disappointed when supporters of Israel completely don’t get it. All attempts at discussion are met with evasiveness, defensiveness, and censure. We all know OEN has screens to discourage having political discussions on Zionism, which they and others seem to confuse with semitism, which it is actually the opposite of. Go figure. Anti defamation strategy serves to counteract the natural antipathy caused by an agenda serving one small group at the expense of everyone else. This is well known historical fact just like the dancing Israelis Rob wants to see more documentation on before discussion. Coto members simply assume others are informed enough to know the basic evidence or at least to have looked at it as part of 9/11 due dilligence.
    My understanding was thermite or some other hot burning cutter was used at WTC prior to conventional demolition explosives on timers. We see the running molten steel coming out of upper stories and we know of the molten steel in the basements. These buildings had massive posts and beams to sever at high temperatures, and then were blown apart sequentially as over one hundred firemen have testified.
    With all the mounting evidence and where it is pointing we are met with denial, defensiveness, and bans on open discussion of political movements and historical facts.
    The entire world naturally said on 9/11, “That looks like they demolished those buildings”.
    I heard authorities did find explosives residue, in the moving vans linked to the dancing Israelis.

    • Mary, so glad to see you here..welcome !

  24. Exactly… but what caused the molten steel? How could there have been that much of it?

    Yes, they could have used some “cutter” charges that used thermite to burn through the steel columns, but it isn’t that widespread in the demo industry.

    Typically they use “shaped cutter charges”which also “cut” through the steel with a directional high explosive charge…

    So what was all that molten steel?

    What was missing?

    You had concrete dust covering the lower half of the city…. that was the floor system…

    You had steel columns piled up inside and outside the footprints of the towers, you can see those in the pictures… like a giant pile of “Pick-Up Sticks”… some were even blown 3 to 4 hundred feet away…. that is the core columns and the exterior columns….

    and then you had molten steel…. so where did that come from? Whats missing?

    trusses. thousands of steel trusses. What happened to them? Where did they go?

    Whatever blew those floor systems up, pulverized them into dust, had to be a high explosive AND burn extremely hot.

    PETN is the most commonly used high explosive used today. It burns almost as hot as thermite and is the second most powerful high explosive used in the industry (RDX linear shaped charges is higher, I think).

    We know for a fact that a “rewiring” project was taking place right up until 911, by the security company Securicom.

    What if they weren’t running regular wire, but instead a product called Prima-line? Prima-line is a commonly used “detonator cord” used in demolition. It is itself, a high explosive, usually packed with PETN.

    It’s explosive power is extremely high. Demolition companies use it to break up concrete structures like pillings and concrete floors.

    Since it burns so hot, it would easily melt the trusses, and when you listen to it go off, it sounds just like what we heard on 9/11. Not only that, but the bright orange “flashes” it creates are just like the ones described by many of the eyewitnesses that day.

    Det cord. PETN… det cord. An industry standard. Could have been installed right in front of people who were told it was new “fiber optics line”. Powerful enough to pulverized the concrete and hot enough to melt and even vaporize (“iron rich micro-spheres”?) the missing trusses and floor pans.

    Easily tested for. especially considering how much they had to use.

    and every single “official” study has gone out of their way to make the statement that they didn’t test for convention high explosive residues…

  25. If you are interested in seeing this theory, check out my work on it, with drawings…

    http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2009/03/23/demolition-theory-hypothesis/

    … and the May 25th “Open Letter to Steven Jones on the Subject of Det Cord”…. detailed explanations, specifics on det cord specifications…

    http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2008/11/11/an-open-letter-to-steven-joneson-the-subject-of-detonator-cord/

  26. Det cord makes sense to me, willyloman.

    No, Curt, I don’t know Killtown. I’m still wondering, “Where are we going and what are we doing in this handbasket?”

    And should we closely examine the handbasket and its construction, attempt to determine where it is heading, or just try to slow it down so we can jump out of it?

    • Precisely, Mark. It’s a handbasket and we’re in it. That should suffice. Besides, we know where we’re headed NO MATTER where the handbasket was purchased. Check out my blof reg. anonymity on site morrissey. Heavy subject. I wonder what my friends in the Black Bloc would have to say about this. No I don’t. I already know their opinion.

    • Mark, so good to see you back with your stories of Jalalabad and places in between. I remember thinking before of your argument that participating in a rigged election at all forestalled the drop to ten percent participation that would trigger a reevaluation of things. It was the first I had heard the argument. I voted for Mckinney anyway.
      Basket cases, huh? In a pretty green and yellow basket?
      Or a basket full of avocados…..what basket are we into anyway?

  27. Willy, thanks for updating my inexpert understanding on how they blew the buildings.
    Jersey Girl, with yas.
    Wire line sounds feasible/most likely as you describe it. Not to downplay that, but do you think the running molten steel out of the upper floors prior to the wireline explosions at demo, were caused by shaped cutter charges, cutters, or what exactly?
    And do you think the molten steel in the basements might be similarly running steel from pre explosion high temp cutter charges or would it be from explosions reported in the basements?
    Do cutter charges explode or just burn?
    I like wireline as an explanation for simultaeous pulverization of concrete and cutting steel floor trusses, but the massive vertical post structure, when was that cut and how?
    What about the 45 degree angle beam endcuts seen in photos of the cleanup?
    Thanks for your expertise, Willy…

  28. Hi Mary;

    “… do you think the running molten steel out of the upper floors prior to the wireline explosions at demo, were caused by shaped cutter charges, cutters, or what exactly?”

    Two big problems in this demolition… exposed steel frame exoskeleton and overblast.

    Notice how in all the pics of the aftermath, we keep seeing the 3 column sections of the external steel grid, still together and still in the same configuration as their original installation?

    I think there is a reason for that.

    They wanted to avoid showing the demolition as much as possible, so what I think they did was they used thermite cutter charges on the spandrel flanges that held those 3 column sections of the exterior walls together.

    That way, there wouldn’t be massive explosions on the outside walls of the towers that people could see clearly.

    If that is the case, then they would have to have also used the same type of cutter charges on the beveled corners of the buildings. And that is where you see the slag pouring off the tower… right there in one of the corners of the South(?) Tower.

    So, yes, I think they used thermite cutters on the outside column structure… and that is what we all saw.

    “And do you think the molten steel in the basements might be similarly running steel from pre explosion high temp cutter charges or would it be from explosions reported in the basements?”

    My guess would be that the base columns, the massive ones, were probably cut with either a combination of thermite cutter charges, or (more than likely) linear shaped charges of RDX. The stuff is so powerful… remember, it hasn’t got to “cut” all the way through the material, just has to MOVE it far enough to BREAK the steel.

    Also remember, the Towers were not a typical “bottom up” demolition. They didn’t need to “crack” the columns in the basement to get the center columns moving first…

    … the Towers were an example of a
    top down” demolition, where they blow out the floors and then “move” the columns out of the way of the falling rubble with “cutter” charges and with “kicker” charges that actually push the columns in the direction they want them to go…

    (remember all the columns that were ejected 300 feet or more into the faces of other buildings? What may have happened there was a “kicker” charge was too hot and blew the column it was attached to too far.)

    I think it was a combination of slag from the cutter charges, as well as the molten steel from the PETN det cord MELTING the trusses. You see, the det cord explodes and produces temperatures almost as high as thermite. That would easily explain the missing trusses and all that molten metal down in the basement, as well as the “iron rich spheres” that Jones found.

    “Do cutter charges explode or just burn?”

    The difference between a “low explosive” and a “high explosive” as best as I can put it, would be the concussion wave. A low explosive is going to burn or decompose at a rate of about 400 meters per second… unless it is under pressure and confined, it isn’t going to “blow up”… and so it couldn’t create a shock wave that would break up the concrete floor systems.

    Theremite, thermate, even nano-thermite (unless mixed with an organic “compound” would be classified as a “low explosive”

    High explosives have to burn at a rate greater than 3000 meters per second, that is about the speed of sound (I think)… what that means is that as it burns, it pushed the air around it at such a speed, that it creates a concussion wave, like a sonic boom… and that wave is what breaks everything in it’s path, depending on how powerful it is of course…

    PETN, RDX, TNT, HMX… these are examples of “high explosives”…

    High explosives blow things up, low explosives burn, for the most part. Gunpower is a low explosive. In a pile on the table it burns rather quickly, but it still just burns… however, under pressure in a blasting cap or a bullet cartridge, it “blows up”.

    “What about the 45 degree angle beam endcuts seen in photos of the cleanup?”

    could easily be a linear shaped charge of RDX or HMX or it could be some form of thermite cutter charge. if we could go back and take a piece of that slag, we could tell exactly what made it as both of those leave finger prints.

    Even though they were cutting to remove columns at that time in the clean up process, I find that particular cut to be too straight and even to have been cut with one of the types of torches I have seen them using to cut steel with in those pictures.

    That cut is almost a perfect straight line, so either someone used a jig cutting that column during clean up (not likely) or it was made by a cutter charge of some kind.

    I hope that helps a little.

  29. Thanks, Willy.
    I have seen the cutter charges placed, I think, in the Blueprint for Truth video or somewhere else. They are not very large and wrap onto a beam quickly and simply. I think there were some eyewitnesses to the cutter charge crew working in WTC, who have testified. And I assume that if the charges are wrapped at a 45 degree angle they burn the beam like cutting it with a jig. A 45 would be a “jump cut” to get the structure off the stump so to speak. I know from a welder friend that the oxyacetylene cutter guys would not want to waste time and energy cutting a beam at a 45.
    The info on the wireline explosives to blow up the concrete floors is a great addition to our knowledge of how this was carried out.
    If folks want to then investigate who had means, motive and opportunity to place the explosives I suggest a study of Bollyn’s research.
    BTW the shock wave I think is ten times the speed of sound at the rate you mentioned, something like that, eh.

  30. Thank you Mary. See, that’s part of the equation that I don’t get; what lives between the burn rate of the upper end of the low explosive at 400 m/sec and the low end of the range of the high explosives at 3,000 m/sec?

    Ah, but you are certainly correct. The speed of sound is much lower than the detonation wave velocity of typical high explosives.

    to give you an idea of just how strong PETN actually is, where TNT has a detonation velocity of somewhere around 6,900 m/sec… PETN is upwards of 8,000.

    If you are interested in this, I have done some research on the subject including drawings of hypothetical placement of the det cord and charges…

    http://willyloman.wordpress.com/2009/03/23/demolition-theory-hypothesis/


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